Autistic Kids hanging on walls!!

I think the, I think the sport or the activity requires integrity as well. Like you can't fake it. You can either perform it and get through it mentally and physically or you get, um, so you can't just fake your way through that. Facade. Great. Sounds like grit. It's grit for sure. Sticktuitiveness there's a slight, so there's some slight levels of, uh, masochism.

I think you have to enjoy the pain, the struggle that, um, that's what we want to look. Humility, integrity, masochism our top three.

Hey friends. This is the finding Mikey podcast. Our family's quest to prepare our son Mikey for life I'm Mike. And from time to time, I'll be joined by my wife, Heather, or other family members and others for interviews and conversations. Now, while I may mention our son, you have a mic. And together we're on a journey to learn as much as we can so that we can understand how to best communicate and guide our kiddos into independent adulthood.

Thanks for tuning in. So thanks for, uh, thanks for getting on the podcast, Troy. Stoked to have you here. You're, you're, you're actually the first human being I will have interviewed for this podcast. So, wow. I'm honored. I mean, if you robots and animals along the way, but yeah. First human being, so it's good.

Um, you know, is there anything you want to tell us about your background, you know, when it comes to climbing and, and we'll just kinda jump in there. We got a couple of topics we can talk about and I'm sure we'll get to them, but yeah, let's get a, let's get a basis. I've already told everybody it's, you know, the details that we haven't talked about.

Um, I grew up in El Paso, Texas, and here's the rub dusty out there. It can be dusty, um, and surrounded by, uh, Waco tanks is, uh, is a state park. Now, uh, when we were there, we used to go play in, it, found out it was a sport. So we started climbing in high school, uh, pretty regularly, and it was a great way to stay out of trouble.

Um, And then, uh, you know, went to the university and there was a rec rec department that had climbing program and got into that. And then here we are running my wife and I run climbing gym business. So it's pretty cool. What took you from the fun of it from the, just screwing around his kids too? Like that business part of it?

Well, I mean, honestly it wasn't a plan. It was just opportunities that started coming up. And when people recognize, I guess, You do something. They want you to do it for them and you're not going to sure. Why not? And then one thing led to another and here we are. So it's just, uh, we were, we were a little apprehensive about ruining the passion, turning into profession, but, um, it's, it's brought me to new people, more people.

And when I see people learn the sport brand new, it just reminds me of where I used to be. Kind of keeps me grounded, helps me. I keep that humility, although the sport does that plenty it'll well, it will tell you how weak you are and it doesn't care if there's no prejudice. So, um, but it's nice seeing people come to it and have that in might mint and see the wide-eyed and ah, the surprises and stuff.

So that's kind of why I'm still into it. So that's still running and you've had the business you've been on the, on the business side of it now for how long? Um, wow. So. Let's see with Austin Roxanne. And we took over as owners in oh six that's 10 years now, before that I was at another gym before that I was at a camp program in Arkansas for six summers.

Oh cool. And so I guess. Starting out as a student employee, I guess would be the beginning of it. So back in 99, 2000. So you mentioned Arkansas, we've driven around as our family. We like cried through there. We haven't stopped in Arkansas, but um, the more I see about Arkansas or wanting to hang out. Yeah, exactly.

So what I'm like, what was it, what was it like for you to. Um, it was a light climate in Arkansas, Arkansas. Um, it's beautiful. Unfortunately, I was there in the summers, right? Super human made socks and cool bugs. I'd never seen before in my life. Um, but I mean just wild, natural. There's a lot of, you know, rivers and mountains and Hills and mountain biking and trails and, uh, you know, Buffalo rivers up there.

I mean, you know, Area. There's great clips, sand stone. Oh, it's a beautiful stone. Um, so it's, it's, it's great. It's a great place to be. I don't know if I want to live there, but yeah, I like to visit just the humidity. Humidity is pretty rough. Um, give us a, give us a breakdown. Some of us are going to be listening from across the nation now.

So, um, you've been to Houston. I've been to Houston. Houston is, is. Wow. That's pretty humid. Uh, at South Korea humid. If you've ever been to South Korea, that's the second place in the planet where I've taken a shower and then sat down and started to sweat again. Okay. So yeah, you sit in front of a, a fan at, after you take your shower and yeah, it's, it's just human, human.

Well, I guess you'd get the trade off. It's beautiful mush, but then you get all this, uh, Well, you're giving back the humidity from her body to the trees. Right? Exactly. That's really cool. So what kind of things were you, were you teaching out there? Just regular, just normal climbing as a neophyte, just regular little climate.

It was, um, so this was a sports. Um, Campos Ark was the name of the place it's still running. And, uh, they would have two, two week camp sports camp, uh, an adventure. So I was there for the ropes climbing ropes course program and a climbing program. So I was kinda overseeing those programs. So I was, um, you know, training the counselors and running with the counselors.

And then I would live in a cabin with two. High school boys. So that was, and we would be mentoring, smelling, mentoring, high school kids. Gold bond sounds awesome for the masses. It was great. Yeah, it was good times. Good bonding. Um, good experience. Yeah, that's great. That sounds good. Mentors there to use.

That's awesome. Do you do anything like that nowadays? Are you involved in any of those types of, uh, sure. Um, well, uh, I did do some mentoring for a year with explore Austin here in town, a great nonprofit that serves, uh, um, and underserved youth. It takes them outdoors and, um, You know, worked with that program for a year, which is great.

Um, on the, uh, on the programming side, once again. So, um, so then with Austin rock gym, we, we all have our camps, um, that we do. Um, and that's an opportunity to mentor a little bit. It's still, it's a different, it's more teaching, climbing, less mentoring, but you're still making an impact. Right. Right. So, so what age groups do you find yourself?

Around the most. I mean, I've been to the gym. Of course. I see a mix of adults and, you know, with my son there, I mean, we bring the average age down pretty low, but, um, um, yeah. What, what's the typical age group that you found yourself working with? Just historically as a person? Um, you know, I gravitate towards the youth.

Um, either teenage and younger. Yep. Um, well I guess it's all youth. Um, but you know, Eric and I, uh, we're a part of a youth program in a church up in Georgetown for a year or two. Um, and that was pretty exciting, but the younger kids come into climbing is lately where I've been a lot of four or five, six year olds.

So what, um, okay, so I've, I've not been on any. Natural rock surface. Actually, the first time I ever, um, jumped on a climbing surface was this well, was it a week ago? Yeah, we went off to this, uh, little, little ZDT down in, um, Seguin. And of course my keys climbing this big silo, like it's going out of style and then there's the indoor little rock wall and there's a, you know, easy, medium and hard.

And. You know, my wife's like, oh, I'll try the medium. And I'm like, ah, there's no wait for the hard, so I'll jump on the heart. And, uh, my daughter is FaceTiming with my mom. So, you know, I got, I can't, I can't fall off this wall. I would have fallen off this wall. All right. So you talk about, you know, you learn how strong you are or where your strengths are and showing up, sir, I'm wearing regular tennis shoes and there's no excuses, whatever, but grips like my grips, you know, at the end, That was harder than I thought.

I mean, I was maybe on this wall for half a minute, less than a minute, and let's just call it a minute, you know, even though I trained jujitsu and it's a different sort of focus area, Tracy involved with that a ton at a time. Yeah. So I mean, my, there was a point in time where I was up there and I felt a lot like Mikey sort of his first time was like, help me, help me, help me, help me.

Right. And I'm going to fall. Sure. And, uh, I feel like I'm in and I'm like, no, I looked down and I remember one thing my buddy had said he climbs is like, yeah, nothing test your metal than like looking down and saying, you know, you're going to want to climb down that. Or you just want to get up and get off of this thing.

Right. I guess where I'm driving to this point here is like, I started to feel some odd. I felt, I felt challenged in myself and I felt I'm concerned about myself. I felt. Strain and stressed. And, um, when you're looking at putting kids on a wall, what, what amazes you about that process? What keeps you engaged?

What keeps me engaged as I'm looking for. That self-awareness moment, right? Because that's really, is that the like, oh my God, I'm going to fall a moment. Or, or, or, you know, a lot of the anxiety comes from, I feel like I'm out of control. Okay. Maybe. And so I'm like, I'm not sure what's going to happen next.

Am I going to get hurt? Am I going to die? And that anxiety builds. Um, but when they start to realize that it's, it's different than that, that they can totally do it. And they're like, oh, This is great. And the confidence starts building, you know, you have to give them the opportunity if find that if you put them on something too hard, right out of the gate, then they're going to get crushed.

Right. I can't do this. I'm walking to walk away. So you have to find something that they can warm up on and get comfortable in instead of just jumping into the deep end of the pool. And so they have to discover that new environment we're used to walking on flat ground. Now we're in a vertical environment.

It's like, okay, body awareness, how do I move in this environment? Well, this is, I want to do this, but something's not happening. I haven't figured out the motor memory, right. The motor skills to do what I want to do. There's no history of that. And so they start building this through interaction with that vertical environment.

And then. It's amazing when they do things that I'd like to get them to do. And they just do it automatically. And you're like, well, that just happened. Oh my gosh. You know, nobody else knows what's going on. Did I go? He's just climbing, but no, no. Did you realize what he just did? He puts his foot or hold or something.

Right. And then they just get it, you know? And it's like, well, he can't teach that. It's if it just happens, it's like, wow. Okay. But you do have to recognize. 'cause that's your point, right? This is like, remember that that's awesome. You know, and then that builds their confidence more and more. Branching out and developing.

It's pretty neat. That's that's, that's a cool part of it. Yeah, I'd imagine. So I became aware of like ropes courses back when I was a young kid also, and, you know, it was meant for confidence and, you know, even in the Marine Corps, you know, we have our, you know, they called it, you know, it's our obstacle course, but we call it a confidence course also, you know, as you're sort of getting ready for the stuff in, you know, It would test you.

And it's always physical. It's always hard, you know, and those types of things, I was even felt like the ropes courses were sort of a race also. It's like, can I get across as am I afraid of this chasm that I'm spanning between this tree and that tree while I'm hooked up, you know, um, or even repelling in the boy Scouts and things like this.

Do you see, do you see people sort of reach like a plateau of either confidence or, um, just that this awareness that you're talking about. And, and how do you help them through that as a coach? Yeah, everybody plateaus differently. Um, and everybody brings something different, I guess, to the rock or to the, to the challenge.

Um, and it's, you know, that's another thing about this Mikey's age group of four to six years old, the dynamic range. What you deal with. It's just literally all over the map. And now if you remember, we had another student in the class, the first day was totally different challenges and it was just better off that we split off in one-on-ones and it worked out really well.

And now he's progressing, um, at a way different rate, but for him, that's two inches is like a huge it's like miles. And is his last day. Going up to eight feet, which before he couldn't even do four feet, which that's not necessarily the challenge is that the height. Um, but for him it was totally, it totally is.

I mean, I just, me on the one vertical decline that I have done, I was good up to like 10 feet and then I get a little woozy, right. Yeah, you get a little woozy and get a little concerned and not knowing how to do what I'm supposed to do. Right. So, I mean, I could see, I mean, she had gone from four foot to AP.

That's a hundred percent improvement and 80%. Right, right. And anybody that's great, but you know, I've got to imagine it's been, you know, it's done well for, for his self-esteem it's hard to gauge, I think in some. Unless you're putting them back on the rock wall though, to climb, right. Or you have you, have you seen kids kind of, have you seen anybody, you know, for a few years and you know, just like, yeah, I met this, I met this young man, a young girl and this program, and they're still with us, you know, X years later.

Have you, can you talk to what, what you've seen. Blossom out of that person. I mean, uh, the, the easiest example that's the most publicized right now is, is, um, a young lady that's been competing for years and now she's on the world stage. Right? She's getting out there with the big guys and the big girls and crushing everything inside, you know, and watching, and then looking back and seeing her as a little kid.

Whoa. We first meet her. What age was she? Oh my gosh, that's a good question. Um, I don't remember how old she was when she first came to us, but we have a number of kids that come in and they're 6, 7, 8 years old when they start on the team. And now they're, um, graduating college on collegiate teams and stuff like that.

Or we're just out there doing other things with their climbing. Um, not all of them need to be world-class athletes, but. Let's see, I'm still in there climbing or starting new groups and other communities. Um, there was another gentleman that, that grew up with us, uh, as a young kid. And he started almost every climbing club that is still active in this city with us.

And he just kind of left this trail climbing club interactions and he started him in and he would go to college and then he would start a new one and then we'd, he'd move on. And it's just like, you know, those kinds of impacts are pretty, pretty neat to see too. So. That there are different spectrums, right?

One's influencing with athletic ability. The other one's influenced by building little communities. Right. So it's neat to see all of that. Right. We have some that are, have come back from their coaches now for the kids. Um, They become employees for us and now they're guides or something like that. So, yeah, it's neat to see the full circle.

It just, I mean, you have to live long enough, I guess, which sure we're at that age. And so, um, and then it just reminds you of your own kids growing up too. Right. So it's like, wow, amazing. That is amazing. I guess if you had to, if you had to come up with a few traits or a few benefits from, from climbing, like what, what are some things that pop off the top of your head humility?

Yeah. Like that's, that's gotta be one of them, for sure. I think the, I think the sport or the activity requires integrity as well. Like. You can't fake it. I mean, it's like, you can either perform it, get through it mentally, physically, or you can't. So you can't just fake your way through that with a facade, right?

It sounds like grit. It's grit. Yeah, for sure. Um, sticktuitiveness, there's a slight, there's some slight levels of, uh, masochism. I think you have to enjoy the pain a little bit in the struggle, right? Yeah. That, um, and that's what we want to humility and masochism talk for me, like seriously, like it hurts.

Um, you know, and you come back with these. Cuts and scrapes and scars and bruises. And you're like, Hey, check this out. Yeah, just doing this. Yeah. Badges of honor, you know, that are healthy. Yeah. Yeah. Um, you, you come back with. Trust in somebody else. Cause it is a very much, uh, relying on somebody else activity, um, to have, uh, a partner that you can trust out there is pretty important as well.

Do you see bonds between folks that form that way? It's like, look, I'm only going to climb with you charged period. Yeah. And then there's opposites. Like bonds had been broken because of stress. Right? Like guys will never talk to each other again or something. Um, but yeah, you know, it's like, Hey, I'm on.

I'm going to go into a situation and I'm going to pick the guy that I trust. Rightfully. So would you say, I mean, you're hanging off the edge of the half dome, I guess. Yeah. He's not helping you out or being lazy or wherever you are, pull your weight or, you know, cause it requires a team for sure. Um, So, yeah, it's pretty dramatic sometimes.

I'm sorry. Let me just like, I just spit out a sentence that sounded like I knew what the heck I'm talking about. You're catching on. Like, I guess I am, I guess I am. I'm sorry. It's just, I got to rebel in those moments. That's that is, that is cool. So you've seen, you've seen, yeah, you've seen kids grow up right in front from your eyes and have had.

You know, connection to climbing, what is it, what do you get out of climbing personal? Um, you know, I like the connection to the outdoors in general. Um, and, uh, you know, just being outside period is I'm just so content and I love that I can experience that with my family. Um, it. Man. It's, it's a dynamic activity.

It's never the same. I get the physical challenge. I get the mental challenge. And then there's some spiritual challenge too, if you want to go that direction as well. Um, and it's like all it's all in there and you could even climb the same route twice and it's not the same. Um, whether you did something differently or.

It's with somebody differently or, you know, I mean, the, the variables there's so many to date, they're constantly changing. It's never the same. You sparked a question for me, cause I've, I've, I've been interested in yoga for a while, just for increased flexibility and just a little bit of, you know, time, you know, kind of a thing.

And I've got a buddy who's a Yogi and I like him a lot. And I went to a class with him first time ever. Um, we'd love to do more. We're just geographically undesirable. We can't date on a relevancy on a yoga level, right. Because there's too much distance, but you brought up, you know, on the spiritual level on it.

And it just reminded me of something in this yoga class. I remember I'm like, I'm having a hard time just doing something that felt simple. And we're trying to run through this progression of poses and do this thing. And all of a sudden. I going to becoming overcome with like these emotions that I'm like, where are these coming from?

Like, literally I'm like, I don't know. I don't know where these are coming from. Like, and I'm like cry. And I'm like, that's not from pain. Sure. It's kinda painful. And I was sort of warned, but you never kind of get, I never, even really, you don't, you don't get it until you're in the moment. Right. When you talk about, you know, kind of, have you ever had something like that happen where uses, so like trying to do something that's physical and you are being taxed emotionally and mentally that like, you're like.

Uh, why am I thinking about my mom right now? Why am I thinking about my grandfather right now? Or why am I like being introspective about my, my me, me being a good father. Why am I getting emotional? Has that happened to you in this? Yeah, I think, you know, you get to these points of, um, you get through a struggle of some sort and these people that you love or that are close to you are the ones that come to mind is because you have this overwhelming.

You want to share it with somebody and it seems like those are the go-to people, your wife, you know, your kids, your, your mom, your dad, your brother, your best friend, whoever it is that, that, that support structure you have in your life. To me, it seems like those would be the first people that come to mind.

Um, or maybe the opposite. Somebody wanting to prove something to you, like take that buddy, you know, but yeah, I think it's because of that. After the stress, right? Um, you just shovel, shovel, shovel, bang your head against the wall. But in this case, this doesn't have to be a physical thing. It can be your job, you know?

Um, and you get to that breaking point where like, ah, finally, but you know, w what's been interesting is, well, I don't know. I think everybody's different obviously. Right. But, um, and I, this is why I need to try yoga more is because it was, it was, it wasn't scary. It was emotional. Um, but it was a. It wasn't that I couldn't equate it to anything like work-related with a struggle here at all.

And, and, uh, you know, I'm, I'm kinda curious, I don't know what connection I have, you know, that to either, but it just, it sparked kind of that, that interest, right. With like, you know, it's physical, it's mental, and then all of a sudden you get this emotional thing that just upwells and you're like, what am I doing?

And the reason I ask is I'm like, equating this. I'm on, I'm holding onto a rock wall and yeah, I could give up or, yeah, this is certain, my hands are sweaty and the sun's beating down on me right now. But, but I'm crying about, you know, something that I did when I was 14 or something. Yeah. Yeah. I just, I wonder, I wonder how this anyway, for those of you who climb and are listening, you probably have had situations like this as well.

He's getting emotional. And I think everybody, like he said, it's different for everybody and what their. Cried out. Sure. Maybe why they're growing, but I think that emotional response is definitely there for most climbers. So, um, I'm sensing an interesting thread, right? I've I've surfed before, back in California trained jiu-jitsu, which has its, you know, it's multifaceted, surfing as well.

Yoga. The one experience I've had, which I'm curious a little bit more about, and then just to sort of, you know, hear this and dig into this a little bit more as well. I mean, when I was surfing. You know, it was something pretty cool to be out on the water and looking back at the beach and just, you know, all you hear is waves and you're separated from society at that point.

And you're like, yeah, you're challenged with a getting out there and not getting beat up and be, you know, getting up on a surf board and having fun while you're doing this. Right. Right. There is something a little. Um, to that, and I think it's, it's fun to explore. Um, do you still find yourself even to this day?

Like if I were to get back to California and get on a surf board again, would be something like there, there would be a huge smile on my face, out there in the water, just like, ah, this is it smells great. And this is, I'm kind of at peace with some things and can think. Right. Do you still encounter that and as you climb now or are you still absolutely.

Okay. Yeah, there's definitely a connection. It's nice to get away and be out there, winds blow, and maybe bird just flies right by your head. And you are, you're looking down on the bird, you know, the clouds are below you or something, excuse me. This is beautiful. Vistas obviously tasted as beautiful places in the world.

Um, and I would imagine, you know, mentioned a common thread. I just, the other night I was talking to a friend and she's thinking about solo sailing, circumnavigating. I'm like, wow. I can't even imagine, you know, like what would that be like out in the middle of. By yourself up to no, it's a, it's a new skillset.

Right. And I've learned with a buddy of mine and I'm like, there's no, well, I can't say no way. They've got boats that kind of sell themselves a little bit now, but still like literally. Yeah. You're kind of on your own for quite a while. It's self-reliance right. And, uh, being out in a bigger thing, something that's bigger than you and some of those mountains.

Same sort of thing since games. What are, um, I mean, you know, there's plenty, there's plenty of stuff to climb around here in Austin and in Texas. But, uh, I believe I read somewhere, you know, you've you head out to Yosemite from time to time, or maybe I saw it on Facebook or whatnot as well. So we'll talk about some of the, some of the coolest spots you've got.

Um, one that's definitely on the top of the memories is, uh, my wife, Eric, and I got to, um, do our first multi-pitch together, which is great in itself. So to find that a multi-pitch I think, yeah, so a single length of rope is about a hundred feet to get up and down a 200 foot rope to get up to a hundred feet and you can get back down.

So that's one pitch. Okay. So basically the LinkedIn. Um, and you do it multiple times to get to, instead of carrying long, long, long, long, long, long ropes, you need a manageable distance to work with, carry up one or two to one or two ropes. It depends on how you want to do it. But, um, um, so you're basically climbing rope lengths and then changing and going up incrementally either one pitch at a time, basically.

And so, you know, First multi-pitch period is just pretty exciting cause you're getting higher off the ground. Um, and then on top of that, it's with my wife, which is really awesome. Um, and then on top of that, we were in Rio de Janeiro. Oh, that's awesome. Right. So it makes exotic place and there's some more detailed stories around that trip.

Uh, but that was, you know, that's, I'll never forget that one. Um, and so, um, Yeah. There's some mistakes I made on that trip and there's some fear and well, yeah, your, your tongue guide barely spoke English, you know? And, uh, then there was some amazing beer at the bottom. I mean, there's a lot of things in there.

You're looking around. You're in Rio de Janeiro. I mean, sir, it's amazing. Beautiful. Right. So it just, all of those combined, right. That that's definitely one of the top. That's awesome. Yeah. So first multi-pitch and in with my wife and in Rio and with your wife, that's. What's it. What's it feel like to be okay.

So I'd imagine you're just, you're running this length of rope. You sure this face of a rock or whatever, and. Yeah, I got anxious when you're anchoring the rope in for your own safety near tethered to someone else as well. And you're not, there's nothing holding you up to the top of the mountain or the top of the hill or whatever.

You're building your own protection. Right. Are you using something there? Yeah. What's that? What's, what's that like? What's that like, how have you, yeah, there's no bathrooms or pit stops on the way either. So I would imagine like wet myself a few times. Yeah. And, and, you know, um, you gotta take care of the environments.

You have to pack out what you pack in, so to speak, which isn't a whole lie when you're climbing up. No. Your waist. Oh, wonderful. So yeah, typically there's certain ways to deal with that. The restroom break. We'll just say, um, it's a lot of sweat, so yeah, that's definitely a logistical thing you got to think about, um, on top lighten in your line a little bit.

If you have. Well, there are, there are certain vessels you can use for bags, systems and stuff like that. I can imagine. Yeah. It's definitely exciting. And that's the hard part for some people, because there's some humility right there dropping your britches in front of somebody. But, um, yeah, it's funny, but yeah, knowing, knowing that what you're building is correct, and it's not going to fail.

That's a, that's an anxiety you got to get through and realizing, okay, this is the right way to do it. Um, There's so many, there are some uncertainties out there you just never really know, but it's way, way less uncertainties than driving down the freeway. So. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. There's a lot less idiots around you.

Fair, other than myself. Right? So you're probably tethered to one. I know my, my limits. Um, so, so you gotta work with those and you try to bite off. As much as you can chew maybe a little bit more because it's exciting, but knowing your limits and stuff like that, um, it's helpful knowing the route there's some planning involved, kind of, you mentioned your guy to see climbing up ahead of you guys and just sort of showing you where you should.

Yeah. So guiding, um, it depends on, on what you're trying to accomplish. If I'm taking people up something they've never done before, then I'll probably go up first and. You know, build anchors, bring them up to me and so on and so forth. And I'm with him the whole way, making sure not unclipping themselves from the wall, stuff like that.

And they're not, they're still tied. I mean, it seems simple, but those little tiny, simple things make all the difference. Sure. And so just being aware of everything that's going on, you know, with, with all your clients that are with you, um, checking on their levels, how you feel. He drinking water, you know, you got to keep, keep all those things in mind and bring them back safely.

So taking care of yourself, you know, so you can take care of them. Hey, my drinking, my water, you know, something like that. Have I eaten lately? I don't want to get low blood sugar and like ma making poor decisions. Right. Um, is there a storm coming? You know, those types of things like, wow, what was the weather forecast is changing?

I mean, there's a lot of variables going on. Um, and depending on the area, We it'll be easier, easier or harder. So just understanding the limitations and your access and how do you get out and what happens if they break their ankle, you know, then what you know, and being prepared for all those scenarios, you know, having some medical training, having an emergency plan.

Those are the professionals dealing with it, but yeah, there's a lot of fun stories around those trips. I bet. Have you ever had anybody who had probably yes. But have you ever had anybody flip out on the rock? Just like I'm done? Yeah, we've had, um, uh, some mental breakdowns for sure. Um, the only thing physically injury wise we've had to do.

The up to this point is a sprained ankle. So, you know, that's good. Right. Um, but yeah, there's a lot of mental struggles for sure. I think that's the hardest thing to deal with too. And being patient enough to deal with their struggle. And that's important to them. Is there any commonality there? Do you see that it's in younger climbers or just anybody?

I mean, I think it's hard to categorize that and expect it because as soon as you start doing that, then somebody is going to surprise you and catch you off guard, sir. I've seen kids handle things that adults can't and vice versa. I mean, both genders and 83 old women doing it. I mean, you name it. So everybody's a little different, it's interesting.

You know? Cause my big brother he's super afraid of Heights. Like he will not climb. There's no way. And I don't know where that came from. So it's really interesting where his fear of Heights comes from and mine. Doesn't, I'm a, I'm a bit as much. I'm a bit afraid of Heights. Yeah. I, uh, I, I don't want to get up on the ladder to change the chandelier that freaks me out.

Like I sent Heather up out there and I do, I'm like, I got this oldest daughter you're lighter than me. Go ahead. Yeah. But no, I'm a little, I'm a little frightened up there. I do get a little bit, you know, what was the, um, You know, it took a lot. I was in China recently and out in Shanghai was up in, uh, the Shanghai world tower and that shy, enormous glass enclosure up top.

It took a little bit for me to kind of inch to the edge. And I got a death grip on the handle, like, what's that going to do this thing topples over anyway. But, um, when they have these glass bridges and stuff, I don't know if I, I, I would feel I'd think, yeah, I got that. Right. But I don't, I don't know if I could, do you see people overcoming their fear of Heights this way?

Are they churn? Absolutely. Yeah. And I think you've got to respect it and, and you have to go at their pace. You know, it's not a push thing. It's like, Hey, if you're ready to do this, do this. And it has to, they have to have the will and the desire to do it. Ty somebody up and take them up there with you and sure.

It's a tough deal with it. Cause you could call it the trauma, a lot of damage. Well, that's good to hear from a guy who's teaching my son to climb like that. I never, we never interviewed or anything like that. So that's true. It's good to find that out as our first experience. No, actually your, your treatment of, of the kids is really it's IOP.

And I think we even talked about this, right? You want me to refer to you? Like, yeah. You know, I couldn't do this to my kids. Like, I'd be treating them different or whatever, but coaching your own kids, you, it's a, it's a trip. So let's get back to, to this. Um, you can go ahead and grab a drink anytime. Yeah.

Thanks. Um, yeah, hydrate. Um, you know, you mentioned a couple of things, just motor skills and body awareness. And I think regardless of. You know, a child's, you know, mental makeup, you know? Sure. I've got my son on the spectrum there, kids with other, you know, a little bit more extreme or very, very extreme or kids that are just wired normally.

Right. That, um, you know, may have some issues, but. You know, do you ever focus on like teaching kids to kind of cross over the center line? You know, they're holding on with one, you know, right hand on their right side and they need to reach across their body to grab again. Or are you, are you thinking about those things and trying to develop that type of dexterity and yeah.

And I know you guys saw you at, you know, attentively watching one of the lessons and, you know, I was using the caravaners and where I put those, you know, there's two reasons. Oh, there's multiple reasons, but yeah. So I'm thinking about things I'm thinking about fine motor skills, right? Right. So I'm trying to think, Hey, clipping carabiners is a fine motor skill.

It also sets them up for other skills we need in climbing. Sure. Clipping carabiners is pretty important. Um, but as we get into like lead climbing other skills, if they've already got that foundation, It's going to be so much easier, right? So I'm thinking about, you know, three or four steps ahead, like where are they going to be in the future?

Maybe I anticipate everybody's going to be going outside at some point. Not everybody does, but if they do, they have some fundamental skills, but there's some simple moves, like grabbing, like. You can just right hand left hand, right hand, left hand and repeat, obviously in climbing, it's not that straightforward.

So we've got to learn how to cross through. We got to learn how to rotate our hips, rotate our shoulders and different climbing on different planes. Now, two different planes intersecting. How do I get through that? Um, so you know, you, you talked about yoga, you know, and positioning and balance. It's the same thing, but it's vertical in some aspects.

And so. People learning how to reach these complex. You're you're moving in three dimensions. It's not a two dimensional thing. So you could have your right foot somewhere, your left foot completely. Position in your right hand. And then your left hand is reaching for something, you know? So, um, just kind of got to build up the muscles and the awareness, right?

So you definitely don't want to put somebody on physically. You don't want to put them on too hard cause they could get injured. Um, and they're going to get discouraged and there's a downward spiral potential, but at some point you're going to face that. You got to go for it moment. It's like, and dealing with that's a little bit harder to mental commitment.

It's hard to. How hard to get to get there. Sure. Yeah. Well, I remember, I mean, Mike, he, his first day was to help, help, help me, help me, help me. And then I remember leaned on me a lot. Yeah, you wanted that help to support, but there was an interesting thing when, you know, he fell off and was laying down and I'm like, all right, let me just, let me just talk to him a minute and you know, to get them to verbalize, first of all, like what's bugging you and his response was, was epic.

I'll never forget it. He's like dad, I'm frustrated. Okay, good. That's why you're frustrated. He's like, because if I have, I can't grab the carabiner because if I do, I'd have to let go and I'll fall on my perfect, oh man. We can troubleshoot it. Right. You know, I'm like, yeah, you got to hold on with one hand, you got to do the other.

And then it wasn't much longer after that, that he was able to get it. And now I think he loves doing that. Yeah. It was a, it was an interesting breakthrough for him. And I would have yes, well, but, but thinking about it too, if I were, if I were being coached and like, look, I'm having a tough time here, you got to really sort of be able to break it down and be like, Hey, this is the, this is the problem.

And like, I think just your maturity, whether you're trying to rock climb, or trying to solve a problem at home or anything like this is to just think through all right. Well, yeah, if the cause and effect, if I do this, then if I do that, that's not the right out, you know, outcome that. How can I change that to do this?

I think that's a, that's a cool skill. Um, the nice thing about it is if you can create a space or a scenario where they discover that on their own, which you, yeah, you're right. Your courses, I'm going to teach you how to save frustrated, right? No, just, you know, if you create it and let it happen and you know, what the self-discovery impact is, Yeah.

So instead of treating them like a little, a little flower, right. A little delicate flower, it's like, well, no, it's okay to fail. It's okay. To fail a thousand times emotions. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Let's just, let's, let's try to work through that stuff and use it kind of as therapy. So yes. And I see that with parents, uh, and this may be why I'm adverse to coaching my own kids is that they're trying to push their specific vision or agenda.

Which is different from what the kid may or want or like to do or can do. And it doesn't line up and it's just hammered through and it's just, you see the frustration on both parties and it's just like, oh my gosh, it's a struggle. So then, I mean, maybe, uh, you know, this goes without saying, but how highly do you recommend climbing for kids and adults?

Oh, my, I mean, I'm bias obviously, but everybody should climb right. Learn about yourself and others. And if you're willing to be open to seeing how that works. Um, but I mean, a lot of people are just do it for themselves and that's all they want. And. It's a release and they get out and get away and disconnect and it's great.

Um, but yeah, it's, it's impactful now, but if it, I mean, yeah, it's not for everybody for sure. I definitely think, I definitely think having. Try it as an alternative, as an alternative activity is pretty cool. Yeah. Um, I definitely see kind of confidence that comes from it. Just being able to accomplish something is, is super cool.

Really, really cool. To see a kids light up and be like, Hey, do you see that? Do you see what I did? You were 20 feet up in the air. That's freaking awesome. I'm not going to celebrate it exactly to celebrate that. Or even, you know, along the way to just celebrate the different kind of things that he's got going on there.

But if you were, you know, say you're listening to the podcast and you're like, all right, cool. I think, I think it's worth exploring for my kid. What do you think? What's our first step first steps? Um, well, I mean, you know, climbing gyms are great because of that. Uh, it gives you a, uh, a community or. A convenient place to go.

Um, that. That has those opportunities. Right? Um, a lot of people come and they're like, oh, my kids climbing all over the furniture. This, I thought this would be good for him. And you know, I hear that a lot. Um, I don't recommend, I don't recommend climbing on the furniture all, but I do have some stories from my mom who said, I used to do those things too, by the way, I ended up on top of the fridge somehow and stuff like that.

We don't know how, I don't know. I don't know how yet, but my key finds a way to climb up onto his bed. He's up on the top of the bedroom door swinging. Like we don't, I mean, I can figure it out. Yeah. Their inherent skills. I mean, we have them, if, if, if something dangerous is chasing you, you're going to climb something.

Right. It's something that's inherent in us. Um, and you know, a lot of the playground, you know, have, have climbing apparatuses, obviously climbing is climbing. It doesn't have to be specifically a climbing wall trees. You know, those are things, but I mean, as a sport and where it's going now, there's a lot of opportunities.

Around to get into climbing. Um, who would you look for? You know, look for an instructor, look for somebody who knows what they're doing. It has some experience, cause you'll get, you'll get a faster and probably more pleasant introduction. And hopefully you find somebody that can build toward the kids skills, right.

That that's what you're hoping for. Um, You know, so find somebody that you trust and that works in this environment and, um, see what they can do, you know, and just get them on the wall. And, um, there's different facets to bull, you know, climbing there's like bouldering and, and rope climbing and all these different things.

Some kids gravitate towards bouldering, some gravitate towards ropes and vice versa. Um, some love the security they feel with the roller. Some just want to swing on the rope. They have nothing to do with climbing. So bouldering, you know, these are different facets, bouldering, there's no ropes involved.

It's always going to result in a ground wall kind of like on the playground. Right. You know? So, uh, some people are never. And so there's a different ways to, to approach it. Um, typically with younger kids, we always do bouldering first, so they don't have that rope, um, to fixate on and swing and they just want to play and try and beat on the skills.

So it's a lot easier to work on the skills when bouldering, I think he's still, no matter why you, you know, your grip is important, whether it's your hand or your foot and trying to move from one, one, hold to another hold. Sure. So whether you're bouldering or on the road, right? Yeah. Yep. And, and now there's a whole, there's a whole bunch of programming out there for adaptive climbing.

Now, two people amputees. Okay. I was going to ask you to describe what that means. Yeah, yeah. Adaptive. Um, so maybe somebody doesn't have a right arm, you know, um, or a right leg or legs or they're, uh, Paraplegic or something to that effect. There's a lot of different ways and people are being really creative to still allow those types of, uh, challenges to experience climbing.

And so that's pretty cool. That is cool. You know, so no, excuse really. That's awesome. Um, good. So would you recommend that, you know, parents, who've never climbed when they get their kids involved in climbing, start to learn, you know, alongside or wait or. From my perspective. Um, you know, I'd want to know my kids getting into, you know, and I'd want to share that experience with them.

If I could. Right now, my daughter, she rides horses. I'm nervous around horses. I've written horses, but I don't know enough that I can do. She's doing horses, kick things like that. I respect the giant animal that can kill me. Um, if I do the wrong thing, but my wife laughs at me because, uh, to them it's not a risk.

And to me I'm like, right. I'm a little nervous. Right. And the horses pick up on it. A horse shoe to the face can do right. It's not pretty pleasant. Um, uh, you know, bees, you know, I'm getting around the beat thing too, you know, I've got my own fears, you know? So you guys doing stuff with bees? No, they just come around and, you know, deal with them.

Sorry, another one other tangent here. I'd love to have bees. I just, I would have two hives come in and out of our backyard this year. So we've learned a lot about bees and I have to, and I've seen some bad situations with bees and climbing. Uh, I saw some climbers get attacked by bees, um, 400 feet off the ground.

So, yeah, so I get my own fears, right? Yeah. So I was hit by wasps a few weeks ago. It just mowing the lawn. And I know if I was on a wall, I hadn't been dead because the way I freaked out, the way I freaked out was like,

I'm glad it wasn't recorded, but it would have been funny to watch. Um, both my neighbors knew something happened and I mean, I have headphones on and my wife, I know everybody's running out the back door, so I cannot imagine being 400 feet up in the air, like, or a wasp sting. I'm going back to like military or snakes or.

You're sending a speeds or you know me like you name it, some wildlife out there. I think I'll stay in doors. I'm not selling it. Yeah, no, not at all. I mean, you don't really pack, bear spray with you when the bears on the cliff, on the trail to the cliff. How to survive. Maybe she's talking about tech. Yeah.

Well, I've got some ideas on some stuff that we should talk about. I think it, I think it would be neat. I don't want to tease it on here. Cause then we'll be committed and want to be committed and yeah, that's it. That's it? What, um, what areas of, uh, well, two things really that I, I think I have before kind of wrapping this one up here, we've been going a good bit and I've loved it and I could continue to talk, but like, so.

We've talked and I've seen Mikey climbing and you're, you're stressing a little bit more core strength with him too. And I'm like, I can't help, but get away from the fact that grips are important too. Yeah. It's important. Are they both kind of equally important, whether it's the full body and engagement?

The grip is just one thing. Sure. You know, and, but your feet are going to come off easily. If you don't have a core. I mean, it's just, okay, you're holding on with one hand and your right foot and the other foot's trying to stay on. And if you don't have the chords, it's going to be harder. Sure. Especially for the overhanging terrain, the trend changes obviously, um, the demands of the body are different.

Um, but yeah, full body awareness. I mean just if you stand with your arms and feet out, Everything is involved, engaged in the entire everything in between. So there's a lot of stabilization muscles in there that, that people don't realize are firing until the next day. Sometimes it's their first event, but, but the full body awareness, including the mind is, is, is required to do well on the higher level stuff.

Um, beginning then there's not as much demand, you know, then you just work whatever level you feel comfortable with. It doesn't have to be a hardcore, you know, go at it. Um, crazy, crazy stuff. It can be really relaxed. Slow and leisurely. Okay. What usually is my forearms Alton? Yeah, that's, that's a good feeling feed up and they usually get stung by wasps in the hostel.

I don't know. I wasn't hitting the nostril, but I can imagine outside wearing those plugs or something, man, man. All right. Last question here. Is there, is there any scenario or situation or, or sort of, I don't know, would there be sort of a red flag? Um, you know, You know, self-aware, you know, and looking at our own children, is there any red flag that would come up to you that was saying, you know, maybe climate is not the best option to start with, or maybe, maybe you shouldn't do that with her.

And, um, I'm thinking, I don't want to, I don't want to give you any ideas, but I'm just curious if there's anything that would jump out at you and be like, you know, probably, probably this isn't maybe the sport. Sure. Um, and I've had these moments with some clients where like, you know, maybe we should just stop the lesson.

Maybe I should reconsider, but it's hard for me to make that, that call. I usually, I always defer to the client, if it's a kid or an adult, it's like, what do you think? I mean, are you getting something out of this? Because I don't know if you are and they'll be like, oh no, you, you want to understand? I know this is hard and I'm not doing well or whatever, but.

I love it. And dah, dah, dah. It's like, well, okay then there's something right. Is that, does that manifest itself with like just sort of a lackadaisical sort of attitude or it's hard? I mean, people are difficult to read sometimes some, sometimes they're easy to read and you just have to be listening and watching and seeing if they're responding.

I think that's the hardest thing. Um, for me to instruct people is if I don't get a response. If we don't have a dialogue between us and they're just doing their own thing, that's when I'm like, you know, I don't, I don't think you're really interested in listening to me. So maybe, maybe this isn't for you.

Maybe you're not ready to work with somebody or be humble enough to think that you need some help or, you know, maybe they just want to climb on their own and they don't want to coach. That's interesting then considering, you know, Mikey and other children, you know, with, with disabilities, right. You know, sometimes they'll respond differently as well.

Absolutely. And sometimes they'll benefit greatly, but won't be able to respond very well at all. So it's interesting. Um, sounds a lot. It sounds like you've, you've developed like, uh, an understanding of like the psychology behind this as well, you know, trial and error maybe. Yeah. And raising kids and that all that psychology is anyway.

So yeah. Sorry, psychologist, no formal schooling. Other, you know, a little bit of fitness and wellness, but, um, Yeah, it's just, um, if, if, if they are showing development and they show interest and they can keep moving forward, would you sum it up as like just a coachable attitude? Maybe? Yeah. That's definitely part of it.

You know, if you're coachable that's um, but most people are, like I said, it's going to always go back to if they have a will or a desire to do it, then there's a possibility, you know, if you, if you, if you have no desire to climb. Yeah. Nothing you can do and not going to take you climbing. Would I do that?

Not that he could do. I don't want to eat peas. Like why that's my thing. I want peace. I gross. Interesting. And just certain activities I don't want to do. I just, you know, no interest, no peas, no horseback riding. I liked that. Um, I respect the horses. I don't dislike them. I think they're fascinating.

Although, can you talk about making connections? Oh, sure. It's pretty amazing. Um, but I'm learning to respect them and work around them. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Good. Yeah. Well, good. Um, well I think, I think he did it and just kind of to recap here, you know, some of the, some of the bigger things that come out of this number one is humility.

Right? And I think that's going to be common, whether you're a child or an adult and, uh, you know, integrity, developing a little bit more grit, right. You're going to fail. And I, you know, just to D I guess, ultimately to develop some skills, to just get you to persevere and learn that your body's just a vessel and maybe it's your brain, that's the smartest muscle of your body, not your grips or your biceps, your cold.

So that's cool. And for kids like. For kids like Mikey, you know, um, body awareness, um, you know, the, the ability to cross the midline. That's what, that's what we call it here. Just be able to reach right hand over to the left and work well, um, to have sort of bilateral, you know, abilities here. I've I've I can see that helping out a lot and anytime.

You know, you can incorporate fine motor skills into something that you're doing with gross motor skills, like hanging on to a wall, just stresses that and starts firing off. Um, you know, just learning synapses. I think that just cement these skills in their heads so that it does really good. I think so far, you know, Mike, he hasn't been into it a lot.

I think he, he loves it. Um, got me interested in Wanda wanting to get on the wall with him too. And yeah. We'll do that. See how well we both could be, um, together. Uh, yeah, it'll be a lot of learning when it's inside. I got hope. That's cool. I got to cool. Anything else you'd like to add just about climate in general, anything that pops out at you at all?

I mean, uh, it's just amazing. I appreciate the opportunity to talk to the admin. Yeah, we'll have a couple more, I think this is spot a couple of other ideas that we should continue to chat about. So fantastical, well, thank you everybody. This was a Troy coach, Troy, our climate guy. Um, and, uh, that wraps up this episode.